(no subject)

[desperance]

grrm has a post about freedom (with specific reference to the US, but general principles apply all over) and you can read it here. I think you should.

Thing is, though, in the middle there he has a paragraph that reads:

"I want the right to do stupid, hazardous, self-destructive stuff as well; to drink absinthe, smoke pot, smoke tobacco, drive my car without the seatbelt, bungee jump off bridges, watch porn, order my eggs sunny-side up and my hamburgers rare, have unprotected sex, drink unpasteurized milk. I have only done a few of those things, actually (I will leave it to you to figure out which ones), and most I would never consider -- but I SHOULD have the right to do all of them."

And while I entirely applaud the sentiment, I have troubles with the list, because it all seems so innocuous. Most of those he would never consider? George, there's only one item on that list I haven't done, and I'm far from the most adventurous or outlandish of men. I'm not bragging about my raffishness here, far from it - just wondering if there's a different mindset across the sea there, if Americans are perhaps inherently more cautious, even without the impositions of their government?

Comments

[spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com]

I think grrm is pointing out innocuous stuff that lots of us used to do that seem outrageous to young people in the U.S. today. My 11 year old flatly doesn't believe that his Dad used to hitchhike or that his Mom used to camp alone, and things that I did regularly as a kid are now considered "Extreme Sports".

I think we've become more cautious, but how can I not hammer on my kids about unprotected sex when I lost half a dozen friends to AIDs? Yeah, my dad used to feed me raw hamburger sandwiches but it wasn't full of e.coli and raw eggs weren't full of salmonella that can kill little kids. Even though I am not at all in favor of the insane airline screenings or the "show your papers!" trend, it does feel like the world is more dangerous these days in some respects.

Wonderful post, thanks for linking to it. If I ever get my lj reading time back to normal, I'm for sure adding him.

[guipago.livejournal.com]

pffft..

I've only not done one of those things and I'm as American as they come, from the Midwest and all. :P

Lists differ everywhere of what people want to do, and what they don't want to do.

I don't want to do cocaine, but I'd really like to be able to swim naked anytime without feeling retribution from the law for "indecent exposure". However, because of the law you've got to do it at night. :( If you're lucky...

[redbird]

It may be a matter of what he wants. I've never wanted to smoke tobacco, bungee jump off a bridge, or eat eggs sunny-side up, in a restaurant or anywhere else: I just don't like runny eggs. I might drink unpasteurized milk, if I were close enough to the cow and trusted the supplier, but it's not something I care about much.

Sure, I've had unprotected sex. I was born in 1963; I wasn't going to get pregnant from sex with another girl, and as far as we knew then, anything you could catch was curable.

[hamadryad11.livejournal.com]

Well, *I* would never consider ordering my eggs sunny-side-up, or my hamburger rare. Blech. Although a nice, very pink steak is a wonderful thing.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

I've never bungee jumped off a bridge or driven my car without a seatbelt.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

I don't want to do cocaine, but I'd really like to be able to swim naked anytime without feeling retribution from the law for "indecent exposure". However, because of the law you've got to do it at night. :( If you're lucky...

I wonder if anyone's tried to assert a legal right to go skinny-dipping on moonless nights, on the grounds that you're not exposed if nobody can see you? If the police came along with their torches, that would by definition be entrapment, no offence committed before they came to arrest you for it...

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

Whereas desperance assures us that he has done one of those things: I'm all agog to know which...

[desperance.livejournal.com]

I knew you would be. I think my reasonable equivalent to driving without a seatbelt is being driven without a seatbelt, which I have done time without number; as it happens, though, the only time I have ever, ever driven a car, I wasn't wearing a seatbelt either.

The bungee jump: no. You have correctly identified my missing item. I can't even do that toppling-backwards-into-the-arms-of-people-you-trust thing, however much I trust 'em; leaping off high places is simply not an option. Happily, it's not an attraction either.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

The one time I did the trust fall thing--

--they dropped me.

Story of my life.

I regularly buy raw milk, though. It tastes better.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

The one time I did the trust fall thing--

--they dropped me.

Story of my life.

One of the stories of the human race, I think: those people you trust are not necessarily trustworthy. It's what gets me out of bed every morning.

I regularly buy raw milk, though. It tastes better.

Durn tootin'. Also unpasteurised cheeses. (And rare hamburger - raw hamburger, indeed, or at least steak tartare - and seriously runny eggs. Oh, and fatty meat, of course, all the flavour's in the fat. And, and, and...)

[devonellington.livejournal.com]

I think that different factors mean different degrees of "risk".

I've met people who are afraid of "New York City", which, to me, seems ridiculous. It's a place with sidewalks and people who tend to be much nicer than the rude tourists who invade it. But it doesn't suffer fools.

On the other hand, I am afraid of rattlesnakes, which people who live with them every day think is silly.

I think that if an adult decides to do a stupid thing and it kills him, his tough luck. I don't think the government should regulate certain personal choices.

However, if that personal choice (such as driving drunk) hurts someone else who wasn't given a choice in the equation, I think that's when and where authorities need to step in.

I think there's far too much a sense of entitlement over here "I want it, therefore I have the right to take it from someone else who isn't worth as much as I am" combined with an odd sort of Puritan prudery.

Again, it depends where you live in the country.

New York is an unforgiving city filled with predators. If you do something stupid, chances are pretty darn good you'll pay with your life. If you even stop paying attention, you can suffer serious consequences. You have to reamin alert and aware all the time.

That being said, the general person on the street here tends to go out of his or her way for strangers much more than in other cities in which I've lived. It's a contradictory place.

I think often Americans tend to see things in terms of themselves, short term consequences, and what they want rather than in terms of a larger context. There's much less political awareness here than in other countries. Ask twenty people what bill is awaiting a vote in Congress and MAYBE one person will have an idea. When I've travelled in other countries, the bills on the floor in that country are regularly debated in daily conversation.

Many people here CHOOSE to remain ignorant, and the ones who actually give a damn burn out from the burden of carrying the rest who can't be bothered.

[fastfwd.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm pretty certain that George would never consider bungee-jumping off a bridge or driving his car without his seatbelt. After that, I'm not sure.

There was a time when I personally would never have considered bungee-jumping off a bridge. Now...I don't know. I might someday.

But driving a car without a seatbelt? Never. Not even riding in one. Having been through a serious accident with my seatbelt on, I was happy to be able to walk away from it mostly undented. Of course, I don't drive any more but I won't ride a block without putting the seatbelt on. I'm just a big baby that way.

I miss ordering my hamburgers rare, though.:)